This is my experience attending the Landscape Committee Meeting on February 21, 2024. I had hoped that the vague Charter and Agenda might include this important issue, but of course the POHOA Board couldn’t just say so explicitly in advance of the meeting. I took notes anyways to help with transparency. If Meeting Minutes are ever produced (they never have been before), they would not be published until late March. An audio or video recording would be FAR easier for me, and would simply be the objective facts of what happened.
It’s almost like the ban on recording is then force recounts of what happens in our meetings to be verbal telephone-game processes, which are inherently inaccurate. Or, to have someone like me write it all down based upon notes, so that my recollection and take can then be summarily dismissed as “LIES!”, which I’ve had 3 people now scream at me in public.
So, working with the parameters created by the POHOA Board’s ban on recordings, this is what a friendly neighborhood committee meeting looks like through my eyes and mind. You see, perception is reality, and while perhaps we would be better served by accurate recordings, my writing style includes what I am thinking, hearing, and seeing. And, feeling.
Remember, as you read this recount, one of the stated purposes of the Landscape Committee is to “promote community participation”. I believe, quite sincerely, that people like Gloria think that treating me in this manner is something I deserve or have invited. It makes it easier to have empathy. And, it is probably popular in their circles – because this is exactly the way this group started way back in 2019 when I first recorded them. So, by banning recordings under a threat of a fine that the HOA could escalate to a lien on our house, it is supposed to prevent my version of reality from existing in the public square.
Unfortunately, that’s not going to work, for them at least. I am committed to providing the transparency that they work so very hard to prevent. You may criticize my words, or think I am a terrible human. However, it underlies the bigger problem with HOA governance – almost every nightmare story I have heard in the past 5 years of advocacy has a group that operates in a very similar manner.
My theory is that this behavior is not inherent and inevitable. I believe it is a learned behavior. And, I believe that the teachers or influencers are within the industry: HOA Attorneys and Managers, driven primarily by two organizations. The Colorado Legislative Action Committee and Community Associations Institute. Those in these professions profit from friction and discord in HOA communities, so whether they are witting or unwitting agents in this system, there is no question in my mind that the things that make objective observers eyes pop are the result of teaching people to treat each other as stereotypes.
In their narrative, I am “combative”. A “harasser”. Or, as the first epithet I received from a former President back in July of 2016, a “rabble-rouser”. Never do we see bothsiderism preached: Where each party in the dispute has an equally valid reason to have a genuine disagreement. In this warped view of reality, the Board or community leader (as CAI likes to term it) is always the white hat, and the person complaining is always the black hat. Their complaints lack basis, are frivolous, or even deemed “crazy”.
I literally had Irve Denenberg, who signed a sworn affidavit in 2021 that he never said I was crazy, put his finger in a circular motion around his ear and saying so to my face JUST YESTERDAY. He then followed with “people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw rocks”, which felt as ominous as it sounds. And, that’s the point of the bullies in HOAs – they know it is so difficult to do anything about it, most try to simply avoid having this kind of target on their back.
So, when Gloria tries to avoid the simple efficiency of recording a meeting so that there is an objective record, and turn that into some kind of criminal offense – and then sends out those who are not officially on the Board or part of the HOA governance group to do the dirty work, you can see how it genuinely undermines the objective of “promote community participation”.
While their narrative probably already circled the neighborhood in gossip after this meeting, I can tell you it was actually kind of boring and uneventful. It was Gloria flexing her power and control, not for the good of the community, but for the fact that she is part of a group that simply cannot work with others, and will use people like Irve to give veiled threats of retaliation and intimidation to avoid dissent from being aired.
I’m just going to be clear on one thing that Irve debated with me for 30 minutes yesterday: I don’t think it is right of us to avoid paying for maintenance or reserves for infrastructure on the basis of being able to get out of the cost altogether either by selling our home sooner or by simply dying. That’s exactly the problem in America – a generation that has sacked multiple generations that follow them with the true cost of me-first thinking.
Gloria doesn’t believe that certain areas are even our property (which I will explain in detail in a follow-up article). And, Irve did a dance around me claiming that by bringing up this issue, I seek to jack our assessments. His estimate was $25/mo per person (and its probably the rumor he’s spreading in his gossip walks around the neighborhood). I honestly don’t think it would be that much. But, we have 20 years we should have been collecting, so we are literally already the people that have to pay for those before us who didn’t pay – and got out of this Ponzi Scheme in time.
Yes, I know that Stormwater Drainage Systems aren’t sexy or appealing topics. It’s B-O-R-I-N-G. Total nerd turf. That’s OK. Some of us realize that in 1997 and 2013, we had deluges that took away people’s homes because, in some cases, the drainage simply wasn’t sufficient. And, because Fort Collins and Colorado, in general, relies on surface drainage, waiting until we get 13 inches of rain in 2 hours is too late. We have to prepare for the extremes while we enjoy the more normal range.
Meanwhile, Sara and Linda deserve some support and respect. They’ve been prepped by the rumor machine to expect me to abuse them in some manner. And, that is definitely a reason why I would want a recording – to defend myself from such defamatory remarks. But, I would hope that their worst fears were not realized, and that I actually hope that they can proceed with the basic tasks and responsibilities of keeping up at least the parts of our collective property that the Board will allow them to. I have confidence in both of them – and that should not be lost among my other criticisms.
ASSIGNED SEATING
At 8am on Wednesday February 21, I went to Me Oh My in Laporte to attend the first meeting of the newly chartered POHOA Landscape Committee. I arrived 15 minutes early, ordered a cup of coffee and got one of their delicious lemon bars. There was no one else besides the employees in the shop, so I sat down in the large dining area at a table in the middle of the room.
Linda was the first to arrive, and she greeted me and asked if I was there for the meeting. She placed her order number holder on the table in front of me. I took it as a sign that perhaps this meeting would be normal, and the shunning of the POHOA Board (who denied my volunteering for this committee) was just the attitude of those personalities.
Sara arrived, and greeted me as well, which continued the good will.
Then Gloria arrived. Once they had all gotten their coffees, instead of sitting at the table where I already was, Gloria walked by without saying a word and her eyes were searching in this empty business for somewhere else to hold the meeting. I got up and followed, and Gloria chose to go into the back room, which kind of made logical sense. Out of the way and semi-private.
She went to the largest round table, and began putting all of her papers on the table. Sara and Linda followed suit. I stood for a minute waiting for an invite to sit at the same table until it was awkward enough to ask “Is it OK if I take this seat?” pointing to the remaining open chair.
Gloria: “No, you can go sit at that table.” Pointing to the next table over.
I didn’t protest or say a word, and took a seat at the far side of the next table over, which was spaced a bit. I opened my notebook as Gloria announced that the meeting would begin.
She then pointed at me and said “And there will be no audio or video recording.”
It might have been an appropriate time to point out that the newly minted Landscape Committee Charter says that they are committed to “promote community participation”, but knowing my sarcasm would not be appreciated in the moment, I just absorbed it without a reaction. Same old same old priorities: Power and control. Sad.
So, I began taking notes as I do at every meeting. I’d prefer to have a recording so I can focus and perhaps actually participate. But, since the meeting is largely unknown to the community (there was no email notice, no sandwich board posted at the HOA entrance, and only a passive notice on the website no one visits), my role here is to observe and listen, and provide the transparency that Gloria and the POHOA Board find so difficult to provide to the community in a timely manner.
And, I take a ton of flack for it. I’ve now had 3 people scream “Lies!” at me regarding this blog, yet refuse to provide a single example of what, precisely, is factually incorrect, misleading, or inaccurate. I did publish the date of a meeting incorrectly last October, and one homeowner simply sent me a text – and I edited it quickly. So, being treated as an unwelcome outsider has become the default attitude that I simply have to cope with. Welcome to HOA life.
The first thing Gloria raised was about “adding the west side of Bubbling Brook on our side of the sidewalk” to the agenda. I found that interesting. It’s one of the Stormwater Drainage Facility areas I had raised as a concern in advance of the meeting. Maybe the Board and Gloria were actually listening. Hope brightened like the sun shining into this back room of a coffee shop in the morning.
NOXIOUS WEEDS
Gloria’s first agenda item was about an apparent review by an outside body (The Weed District) regarding the noxious weeds we have to contend with. Again, this is a good thing. I had raised the issue with the Board in 2020-21 while Trademark was the CAM, and it was an apparent oversight.
They identified that we have 3 primary issues:
- Leafy Spurge
- Canada Thistle
- Cheatgrass
The Leafy Spurge will be dealt with by spot spraying areas where it is found. Gloria said it was over an area of 8 to 8.5 acres, which by my estimate is pretty much the area of all of the outlots behind all of the homes, as well as the dry ponds in the center and East End of the subdivision. The time to spray will be in May or June.
Because the spray is harmful to humans and pets for up to 48 hours, a notification will have to be sent to all homeowners, as well as a posting where it has been sprayed. Considering that we have many people from neighboring communities who walk through these areas (many with their dogs off leash), it will be necessary to post signage to ensure safety.
The Canada Thistle was described as “easy to control with herbicide”.
The Cheatgrass, however, poses a different issue. Gloria said that it is outcompeting the Buffalo Grass which in the “natural area” along Overland. It requires a pre-emergent herbicide, which means it has to be applied earlier in the year.
While researching the issue of weeds in the Buffalo Grass area in 2022, I spoke with several Fort Collins Landscaping Contractors, all of whom spoke about the fact that no contractors want to deal with Buffalo Grass. The problem is that it is so sensitive to herbicides, it leaves dead/brown patches, and the persons applying the herbicide have to be very careful, as the ratio is like maybe a teaspoon or tablespoon per FIVE gallon applicator. It’s really easy to put in too much and kill Buffalo Grass that you are actually trying to protect.
With that in mind, Gloria said that we would then need to reseed the Buffalo Grass, and that we don’t currently have any in hand. Not a big deal in the big picture, but it is likely that the process of getting out all the Cheatgrass that has moved in will require telling homeowners it’s gonna look like we have dead spots until the Buffalo Grass recovers. Complaints should be anticipated.
Gloria said that we will be getting estimates from 6 vendors, and that they will then be sent to the POHOA Board for a decision. However, she also mentioned one vendor, Back 40 Management, which has apparently already been contacted.
Gloria said that she is sending Plats (which are landscape view drawings of the entire subdivision) to Back 40 Management. Sara asked if we can get the plats in digital format and mark where the irrigated sections are. It was surprising to me that no one on the committee was familiar with the Larimer County website, where there are interactive plat maps – https://maps1.larimer.org/gvh/?Viewer=LIL
I withheld comments at the meeting, sensing they were not welcome. By this point, however, it was extremely difficult to hear anyone at the adult table. The restaurant they chose had music playing overhead, and Gloria was speaking so softly, I had to strain to hear her. So, I moved to the other side of the table I had been assigned to, and swung the chair around with my coffee behind me taking notes on my lap – with my legs crossed and going numb from time to time. The open space on the adult table in front of me was begging for normalcy, but, again, I coped with the arrangement wondering whether, if anyone else had showed up, it would be different.
Gloria seems to favor Back 40 Management saying they were very positive that they do work within a required schedule. They also promised to give a “good estimate” after a site visit.
POTENTIAL COMMUNITY PROJECTS
Gloria identified two areas to target work that would involved homeowners as volunteers.
- The “Island”. This is the area with 4 trees and some shrubs and flowers as you enter the subdivision. Dividing Day Lillies (which is not in the Landscaping contract). She mentioned it is very hard to tell grass from Lillies before they flower.
- Sign Maintenance. This is the Poudre Overlook sign that lights up at night. Russian Sage has taken over, and it has other bushes and currants.
GREEN EARTH LANDSCAPING REPORT
Gloria said they did a good job in 2023, but were late. They pulled Bind Weed, but they pulled Currants they should not have been cut back. They will not mulch unless we pay extra. I wondered why, silently, when we had a $15k surplus in 2023, we would not pay to get something done if it was necessary.
The perennial flowers that were planted flourished in 2023, but may not come back in 2024 because they were pulled. Gloria noted that there appears to be a perennial problem (pun intended) as they cut back more than they were supposed to.
Gloria also reported that in our extremely wet May-July in 2023, that we cut water usage “like crazy”. She then discussed how they looked into getting a rain sensor to avoid watering when it is raining because as it currently stands, either she or her husband Clay have to manually go over and turn off the sprinklers. She said, however, that installing the device would cost more than it would save, which is immediately questionable. It is literally the purpose of such devices.
Yet, I kept my thoughts to myself, and continued to just take notes.
WEST END OF BUBBLING BROOK (where it meets Stagecoach Subdivision/Doubletree Dr.)
Gloria was aware that the “other side” of the connector is maintained by 1-2 people who live in Stagecoach. She was also aware that before COVID, volunteers from CSU arranged by Stagecoach pulled weeds and did other maintenance. There was a discussion about whether or not we should or could get our own volunteers, and whether or not we would get food or beverages for them.
At this point, I raised my hand to speak. I had something important to contribute: Before buying a home in POHOA, I lived in Stagecoach. I was part of the Northwest Neighbors FC 501(c)3 that applied to the Larimer County Open Spaces Grant Program back in 2004 – and then coordinated the building of this connector with the original Builder of POHOA (who not just matched grant funds, but matched them at 20x the grant to build THREE connectors!). I was also part of the group in Stagecoach that maintained this as volunteers as a property owner in BOTH communities!
Gloria GLARED at me without saying a word. I simply said that they might be interested in contacting Mary Elizabeth Linnehan who was the President of Northwest Neighbors FC, and was the coordinator of the CSU students for 15 years.
Gloria’s response: “THIS IS NOT A BOARD MEETING. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE COMMENTS AT THIS MEETING”.
Seriously. I said, well, I have her phone number if any of you would like to take it. Sara and Linda looked kind of stunned, but clearly didn’t want to cross Gloria, so there was just this awkward silence.
Gloria moved on and continued to the next topic about some “social bike path”, which was not really explained. While I had questions that would be nice to clarify what they were talking about, her admonishment for speaking was pedantic and emotional, so I simply kept quiet. The best I can guess, someone is trying to pave a bike path around the neighborhood in the drainage areas, or something like that.
PLANT SWAP
This was one of the more active parts of the meeting, where Gloria, Sara, and Linda described the pros and cons of having a plant swap in the Spring vs. Fall. There was a discussion of which kinds of plants favor one season or the other. Salvia, for instance, blooms in both the Spring and Fall.
Eventually, they said it should probably be done on the same day as the Maintenance Day (Day of Service, or whatever the final term will be). That would be May 4.
Of course, the Landscape Committee cannot make a decision on their own. They have to ask “permission” from the POHOA Board and estimate a cost.
A discussion then led to the subject of water for volunteers. There was some reminiscing about drinking out of water hoses, which then led to a discussion of when the irrigation would be turned on – sometime in April. Of course, that led to the conclusion that maybe just bringing bottled water would be best. Or, maybe people could bring their own water.
I’m honestly not sure what was decided about water.
Then, they decided that May 4 would be the day, and maybe a “May the Fourth Be With You” Star Wars theme for the event would be a good idea. This then resulted in a discussion about how to let everyone know.
Of course the primary means of communication about this event will be . . . a flyer posted door to door. The cost of the printing will need to be approved by the POHOA Board.
As they considered other potential costs, they then moved back to bottled water. But tools would be Bring Your Own (BYO), so no cost there. And, they didn’t anticipate the need to buy anyone lunch (which is what we had always done for the CSU students – usually pizza). And, of course, styrofoam cups and plates, because we are now ignoring the new ban on styrofoam in Colorado that went into effect January 1, 2024.
I would love to speak up and ask why, if we are not providing food, why we are then getting styrofoam plates, and if the water is already in a plastic bottle, why we need to double the landfill material with a styrofoam cup. But, again, I know my comments and my sarcasm, in particular, is not appreciated.
So, I just take more notes.
They then return to the need to have written communication. I’m dying to say “Why don’t you just send an email to everyone?”, but I know, again, even though that is serious and not sarcasm, that Gloria just absolutely refuses to use the most efficient and cost-effect means to reach the majority of POHOA homeowners. It has to be flyers.
But, then we discuss the possibility of the Sandwich Board. Which, after all the times it’s been used, I would think it would be a primary communication device. Gloria then explains that it is very hard to erase each time now, so apparently its fallen out of favor as a communication device.
GATE AREA TO LIN-MAR ACRES
The connector between Poudre Overlook and Lin-Mar Acres has a gate that for some reason we insist on keeping closed. On the other side is a sign that makes some people feel unwelcome, as it describes our neighborhood as private property. As a result of it being closed, the sidewalk on the other side of it gets iced up, making it difficult to swing this gate open. The solution of just leaving it open has never been a viable option, for some reason.
So, it was noted that Clay, Sara, and Herb sometimes shovel the snow over there. But, along the sidewalk following the fence, it still gets iced up anyways because it is always in the shade.
No resolution was proposed.
OVERWATERED TURF IN CENTER OF NEIGHBORHOOD
The Elephant in the Landscape Committee Room is that we spend an enormous amount of our assessments to grow 2 acres of grass in the center of the neighborhood. The cost of watering and mowing alone is nearly 2/3 of our expenditures in some years (depending on how much we waste on attorneys).
So, apparently some have suggested that we turn off some of the irrigation on this center 2 acres. The big plat map gets rolled out on the table. It’s the area in the North section near the HOA subdivision fence that is considered.
There’s alternatives including watering less. Like 2 days per week instead of 3. But, then we have the discussion on rain gauges, and Gloria says that the cost doesn’t result in ROI savings, which I find hard to believe. But, again, my comments aren’t welcome here, so I could not dig for more details.
So no decisions or recommendations are made.
NEW BUSINESS
They quickly go from saying the next meeting is March 20 to preparing to adjourn. I raise my hand, and got another glare from Gloria. I speak anyways. I mean, this is just ridiculous at this point.
I ask about whether this committee will be dealing with the Stormwater Drainage Maintenance and Repairs, and Gloria again admonishes me for speaking but says that its not in the Committee Charter. Except that it is, but she quickly adjourns the meeting and starts packing up.
So, I point out that now that the meeting is adjourned, I am no longer subjected to her controls on me speaking, which earns me a “that’s not nice” from Sara without irony.
But, Gloria proceeds to walk away saying over her shoulder that it is the Board, which includes her husband, will have to decide if they will deal with those issues. I said that we now have The Board, PID, and the Landscape Committee now making up 3 entities that do not seem to communicate or coordinate about these issues – with no written plan as required by Larimer County Code. No response as she turns and walks away.
The hot potato now bounces back to the POHOA Board, which has yet to respond once on the issue of actually addressing the damaged section, putting something in the budget, or to maybe someday have reserves. I wonder, at this point, whether this Board is capable of realizing they are acting against their own interests, or whether, like Irve, they think that they can keep getting elected by pushing off costs to future homeowners indefinitely.
Meanwhile, their priority since 2020 is to spend TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars on LAWYERS. Money that has resulted in absolutely no tangible benefit to the Association (their fiduciary duty), or to the homeowners – either in realized increases in their property values, or by keeping their assessments down.
We are going to have to pay for our lackadaisical approach to maintenance, and we are likely not in compliance with Larimer County Standards on Stormwater Drainage. We already have damage to at least 1 section of concrete, and we have allowed sediment to accumulate so that there is 6″ or more of soil with weeds and grasses on top of many concrete sections. This shortens the lifespan, and pushes forward the date for repairs and replacement. SOMEONE will eventually have to pay.
What I am certain of is that this Board thinks that it should be paid by someone else. And, when those who live here in the future look back to figure out who made these decisions, if no one is keeping a record like this, they will be stuck like many Coloradoans who are suddenly hit with $10,000+ “emergency” special assessments, which hits our Seniors on fixed incomes the hardest.
If we really are the good people we tell others we are, then we should face this oversight straight on as adults, make a proper estimate of what we need to course correct and create the right reserves, and collectively agree to NOT push this onto future generations and future homeowners. It’s just not right.
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